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5 Comments For This Post

1. Steve Says:
   March 22nd, 2008 at 6:53 pm

   Here’s the Joey Matthews photo that we referenced:

   http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/SuperClerk/work.jpg

2. Steve Says:
   March 27th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

   I checked the live results, and the Tyler Black match did in fact take place before Danielson-Morishima.

3. John Philapavage Says:
   April 2nd, 2008 at 9:49 am

   Okay, a bunch to say now that I’ve gone through parts 1 and 3 and halfway through pt. 2:

   -Part 1 - You guys referenced my results and opinion on the Vulture Squad vs Hangmen 3. Let me explain. While it might seem odd with all the modern NOAH, Drag. Gate, and specifically ROH Briscoes matches we all watch, it was a classic layout in the sense of not only the Rock NRoll Express vs Midnight Express formula that everyone in the modern era is taught by Jim Cornette, but it’s also the standard for all Mid South 80s tag matches.

   I know, it was odd to me at first, but the winning formula is as follows: Babyfaces do hot moves and get over on the heels at first. Heels powder out to regroup/sell/yell at fans. Faces get a few more spots/offense in on the heel until the heel cheats, at which time there is a lengthy heel heat segment. During this time the heels do a bunch of double teaming, draw the face on the apron into the ring, cut off the ring so the selling face can’t get the tag, and utilize quick tags between each other to “stay fresh”. Eventually the seeling face gets a few hope spots, each one getting closer and closer to the tag and in relation to each hope spot. Finally, the hot tag, the “house of fire babyface” in the ring beating both heels, all the participants are in the ring, and the match usually ends within a minute to two minutes of the hot tag.

   Being that all I’m watching (and putting on the site) are Mid South matches, that’s why to me it was “classic” or old school, though that would sound out of place w/o that perspective, I realize. Thought I should properly explain though.

   A side note is that while the Briscoe matches have alot of faults, the falling apart at the end of them does follow the pattern of almost EVERY purists ideas of old school promotion’s tag team presentation: Mid South and NWA in the 80s. I just find that funny.

   - It was mentioned I said “push Tyler Black to the moon”, and I want to clarify that I said MAKE Tyler Black. I do this not to be a prick to Steve, but because what i think is happening is different from a push.

   I think Black probably looked awesome against Danielson, the top hand in ROH as a worker, and has been good at all other aspects of matches/feuds so far. So Gabe wanted to MAKE Tyler as a wrestler/potential main eventer in one night. This is the Sting vs Flair formula (20 year Anniversary was just last week). It would be like if the WWE gave CM Punk, a popular, but not universally over babyface, a shot at Orton on a RAW. Then, after it looked like it would be a typical match with a the champ winning in ten, it ended up being a 45 minute draw or VERY competitive loss that made Punk look like he could hold the title. That what Flair did for Sting in ‘88 at the Clash, and it’s what Nigel did for Tyler Black, and it worked.

   The difference is Tyler isn’t going to be main event now, but after the PPV ends and his eventual break away from AOTF (or taking over as the leader), he’ll be a somebody to the fans.

   - on Kylie Pearce. Alyssa and I were actually at the Chikara show when she faced Sara Del Rey, and I’m wondering if Del Rey trains her or is “breaking her in”, because that match went longer, but Del Rey was stiff as hell. And the every time Kylie screwed up, Del Rey was stiffer. The end came out of no where after a Pearce screw up w/ Del Rey really giving it to her.

   Didn’t remember at the PPV taping until Alyssa told me in the car later, but I’m guessing this is Pearce paying her “dues”.

   pt. 2 - So glad Steve said the thing about Misawa. I felt the same way. When Bob Dolezil and I were in NYC and met him before the show we yelledd to him and wanted to shake his hand. We were 8 mfeet from him and all the Japanese media loved the idea these American fans were saying “Misawa # 1″ and “We love you and NOAH in America” to him. He looked like it was a hassle, faked a smile and waved, and walked on. I got the vibe that the “young boy” KENTA and Marufuji were to do all the work for the old man and sell, and we should all be happy he was there. There is a difference between working smart at an old age and being a lazy old cromugan (sp?), and Misawa hasn’t been much to me in half a decade. Oh well.

   Glad to see Marufuji finally getting out of KENTA’s shadow in the ROH mind set of fans. He’s been the glue while KENTA has been the pushed one. Both are great, I just wanna see some Marufuji love!

   pt. 3 - listened to this right before I got on the plane from Ft. Meyers to Orlando. Really helped me with watching the show and some perspective/background/history. Awesome shows guys. I’m hoping all ROH fans give it a chance because there’s nothing like it on the net

4. Steve Says:
   April 2nd, 2008 at 10:06 am

   Glad you agree about Misawa. I hadn’t seen you voice that opinion before (or at least I don’t remember it), and I almost get the sense that he has this “sacred cow” aura and that criticizing him is tantamount to heresy.

   Having watched Cornette’s “Secrets of the Ring”, I’m definitely familiar with the classic Southern tag formula even if I haven’t seen a whole lot of it. It’s funny that you mention the Briscoes because they do follow it to an extent, but it seems like they sometimes play the heel role and sometimes play the babyface role regardless of whether they’re actually heels or babyfaces at the time. Sometimes both within one match.

   As for Tyler, did I really use the phrase “push to the moon”? Just doesn’t seem like something I’d say, so I have a feeling that was Brian. Prick.

5. John Philapavage Says:
   April 2nd, 2008 at 10:23 am

   It’s possible that I paraphrased someone and shouldn’t have actually put quotes…prick

   Yeah, when I thought about it (Misawa thing) I didn’t say anything at first because subconsciously I thought perhaps I was reaching or making it up, and people are apt to be forgiving to the old man, so I thought maybe I was too harsh. So there is somewhat of a sense that because it’s not our week to week stuff we smash more easily, and because he gave us some awesome matches in the past that add to the style we like, he’s not as touched unless you are a bigger Puro freak (freak in a good way).

   Haha, yeah, the Briscoes do. They just throw EVERYTHING into a match they’ve ever learned apparently. A Briscoes match is just wrestling knowledge stew philosophy to them. I love em, but I’m starting to think the idea many of us have that they will settle down and work a smarter style that they seem to do the first 6-8 minutes of matches isn’t gonna happen. Under the “stew philosophy”, I would be a healthy eater if I ate bananas, apples, chicken breast, all vegetables, several cups of water, Vitamins a,b,c,d, etc. - all at once!

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1. Pro Wrestling Chronicle » ROH “Dragon Gate Challenge II” LIVE Results Says:
   March 28th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

   […] throughout both shows. While you’re furiously refreshing in between updates, check out BS With Honor #7, featuring an in-depth preview of both shows by Brian Streleckis and I, or anything else from the […]

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